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Color
Nov 14, 2008 13:48:47 GMT -5
Post by JenvyBritts on Nov 14, 2008 13:48:47 GMT -5
Why do you think some people have a color preference? Why won't some judges put up a certain color?
Do you personally have a preference? Why?
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Color
Nov 14, 2008 19:44:13 GMT -5
Post by nveebritts on Nov 14, 2008 19:44:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure why some people have a preference. I always grew up having orange Britts so that is what I tended to stay with. I did like/admire some very nice livers over the years.
I own a liver now & I possibly would consider it again in the future, but showing one is like beating your head against a brick wall some days!
My take on judges is that if its someone that doesn't know the breed really well (like a breeder judge or a long time all around judge would) & they are faced with several nice dogs I think they won't go out on a limb & put up the one oddball.
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Color
Nov 14, 2008 22:46:52 GMT -5
Post by kikismom on Nov 14, 2008 22:46:52 GMT -5
I don't agree with your sentiments Michelle. I USED to agree whole heartedly, especially since my preference is for the livers. I came by my preference quite naturally as it was the livers that I was first introduced to.
I think the Liver is getting much easier to finish then it used to be. 24karat89 and her Mom just finished my Jade for me recently. I handed her to them with 5 singles ( owner handled) and they handed her back 7 weeks later with her CH title and a G2 win! I expected it take much longer then it did but the judges seemed to really like her.
I am, admittedly a very inadequate handler in the Brittany ring ( I prefer table breeds, in fact started my showing with the Pembroke Welsh Corgi, and had a fair amount of success in the Chihuahua and Cardigan rings).
My Soldier is out now. I handed him to Linda and Kristyn with both majors and a BOB win. Let's see how long it takes to get him done. He has ONLY been shown a handful of times ( I think I can count his total show weekends on one hand to date) and is a bonafide Field bred boy.....just turning 4 years old this coming Tuesday.
I honestly think that the color blindness issue is much less harsh then it used to be.
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Color
Nov 15, 2008 21:53:14 GMT -5
Post by ohiobrittany on Nov 15, 2008 21:53:14 GMT -5
I haven't shown brittanys for very long but it just seems that the majority of brittanys out there are orange and white. Again if the judge doesn't know the breed, they may not be comfortable putting up a liver and white. In the US I have seen a few judges put up some nice liver and white brittanys. I like liver and white brittanys but just happened to have an orange and white brittany become available to me. Otherwise liver and white would have been my preference.
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Nov 16, 2008 20:42:08 GMT -5
Post by nveebritts on Nov 16, 2008 20:42:08 GMT -5
I think things have come a long way with livers in the time I've been showing Brittanys, but I still think it can be harder to show a liver than an orange. (in general & especially for the average owner/handler)
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Color
Nov 17, 2008 20:56:13 GMT -5
Post by kenmoore1 on Nov 17, 2008 20:56:13 GMT -5
Definitely more difficult to finish a liver bitch than an orange one as a DC. If you look at the dual champions, and I have only looked at the #1-539. There have been only 17 liver DC bitches out of a total of the 162 bitches with a DC. Roughly an 8.5 orange to each liver bitch that finishes a DC. This is quickly tabulated for the lovely liver females, but in the first 100 DCs there were 2. In the next #101-200 there was 1; #201-300 there were 2; #301-400 there were 4; #401-500 there were 7 and for #501-539 there has been only 1 since Nov 2000*.
I think liver pups are more striking than their orange littermates, but the liver adults really sun bleach easily. Our family loves them both. If you are just trying to use your money in the most frugal manner to campaign toward a DC, your money is best used if you start with the color orange. In my experience the field trial judges in our area are color blind, but conformation judges will put up a good orange over a better liver (IMO). Some judges will actually ignore the livers being shown. Overall, you better have a very good liver to beat a pretty good orange. *If you have more accurate data than I have supplied please let me know. Ken Moore KK Brittanys
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Color
Nov 17, 2008 21:37:02 GMT -5
Post by kikismom on Nov 17, 2008 21:37:02 GMT -5
If you are just trying to use your money in the most frugal manner to campaign toward a DC, your money is best used if you start with the color orange. I don't think that the person who decides to reach for the DC title actually looks at their checkbook ahead of time, Ken! LOLOLOL But you are right about the % of Liver to Orange DCs. I do know however that a good many liver CHs have been finished on a pretty regular basis since I started in the breed 10 years ago & and it seems like that number is increasing pretty steadily......
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Color
Nov 18, 2008 11:23:39 GMT -5
Post by touchofclassbritts on Nov 18, 2008 11:23:39 GMT -5
I agree whole heartedly, but it won't scare me off. I love my liver dogs and can't wait to finish my first liver bitch. May Windy live up to the standard her liver dual aunt has set for her! Via la liver brittany! Laura Wilder Touch of Class Brittanys
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Nov 18, 2008 21:55:31 GMT -5
Post by kenmoore1 on Nov 18, 2008 21:55:31 GMT -5
Thank you, Laura. In turn, I always hoped that Coke (#521 DC) would approach your Rob's (#509)forward run. Kaye and I just hope we have a brittany that hunts well and looks good.
You are right on the money ( no pun intended), Helen. If I looked at the checkbook beforehand, Kaye would never let me have another dog no matter what the quality. If Ziggy (#481) were still around I think he would have been a good boy friend for our girl, Coke.
I just pick a pup that appeals to me and let it take itself (with my checkbook) as far as it can.
I like the orange and the liver, equally. Now, why do some judges tend to overlook a nice dog with profuse ticking? Do they think the brits appear dirty or don't these match the stereotype of a show dog? Ken Moore KK Brittanys
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Color
Nov 18, 2008 23:34:39 GMT -5
Post by kikismom on Nov 18, 2008 23:34:39 GMT -5
Hey, I'm still hopeful that our Jade ( CH Wild Mtn's Lone Star Rendezvous, a Ziggy daughter - the newest LIVER Girl to finish recently ...topped off her title by going GROUP 2 the same day...how many LIVER Girls have gone on take group placements???) will be a DC before the #550 comes up. She only needs 3 field pts to complete that goal. DC 533 is a liver....
I agree that Ziggy was special. And you know he LOVED the girls.
Don't discount Soldier. He is a nice dark liver ( a Major son) sitting on 8 pts both majors done. He is out campaigning to finish now and we are hopeful he will be done before Christmas.
I love my livers and I don't care if they drain my checkbook either....lololololol
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kevin
New Member
Posts: 19
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Color
Nov 21, 2008 14:55:08 GMT -5
Post by kevin on Nov 21, 2008 14:55:08 GMT -5
I have owned them all (TRI, L/W, O/W, O Roan, L Roan)..............and from a hunting/field trial perspective could care less the color as long as they have great nose and excellent style to go along with the brain.
I have never had a roan that wouldnt hunt......must be something genetic.
My question is how many Roan DC do we have in the Brittany world?
The breed standard is O/W, L/W, TRI, in clear or Roan as long as there is no black................................why should the color of coat be a descriminating factor in the ring? Im not a show person but from what I gather your to judge the dog against the standard, movement, top line, ect. ect. ect. If judges are descriminatory when it comes to color then why do we (as a group) elect to have that judge, judge our dogs?
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Nov 21, 2008 16:00:21 GMT -5
Post by kikismom on Nov 21, 2008 16:00:21 GMT -5
ACtually Kev, alot of the old dogs were Roan. I asked this very question of Delmar Smith last summer while we were having lunch and he said that back then Roan was the norm!
Color shouldn't be the discriminating factor at all.... however most all breed judges are used to seeing orange and white clear pattern day in and day out so they get to thinking that is the preferred color. <shrugs> Lack of quality judge's education IMO
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Nov 21, 2008 21:26:45 GMT -5
Post by ohiobrittany on Nov 21, 2008 21:26:45 GMT -5
If you have an opportunity to see Diana Kubitz's (Renegade Kennels) AKC Judges seminar, it is really well done and she is always adding to it. She will be presenting it at the ABC Nationals. She does her part to make sure as many judges as possible see it, so hopefully judges won't be colour biased.
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Nov 25, 2008 13:03:34 GMT -5
Post by touchofclassbritts on Nov 25, 2008 13:03:34 GMT -5
Di does an excellent job with the judge's seminar and it really is worth checking out. However, it is a matter of changing the norm in the ring, because it doesn't matter what we tell judges in our seminar if they never get to practice the information. Lack of diversity in stickly show lines has perpetuated this issue, IMO. A dog that has proven his metal as a field dog, (field meaning all manner of hunting, not just trials) does not require or benefit from a strictly orange and clear coat. Heres looking to the day when a good liver dog is just as good as his orange counterpart in the eyes not only of our show judge's but our fellow breeders as well. Laura Wilder Touch of Class Ranch
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Nov 30, 2008 22:35:06 GMT -5
Post by mythbusterbrit on Nov 30, 2008 22:35:06 GMT -5
Has anyone ever considered showing a Tri-colored Brit?
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